With just a week left before voters cast their votes in the town of Ulster it has taken a nasty turn, with the Citizens for Change in Ulster unleashing a series of lies and crazy accusations on incumbent Supervisor Nick Woerner that would even make Karl Rove embarrassed. In their full page ad that was taken out in the Kingston Times, let's just say it makes Woerner look less than honorable. In reality what can one say about a 23 year old Supervisor who has proven more competent than many of his former predecessors, lies and political spin is the only option and voters usually reject those tactics. Just ask Mr. Matthews how he's doing in the Assembly.
Who is behind this Citizen for change? Vince Guido, Joe Toscano, and Jim Quigley. Now apparently Jim Quigly has hired Joe Toscano as a political consultant, he would of been better off hiring my cat. Not for nothing, Mr. Quigley is a very successful businessman who led a one man effort to defeat the Ulster County charter and was nearly successfulin doing so. So why he hired a dud like Toscano is beyond me. The Citizens for change had their campaign kickoff at their headquarters on Albany avenue and all five of them showed up, probably working on Don Wise's concession speech.
Woerner, meanwhile has picked up some significant endorsements from Congressman Maurice Hinchey, U.C. Sheriff Paul Vn Blarcum and Robert Reynolds, President of the town of Ulster PBA. I hear there is another significant endorsement coming out this Friday.
While I'm talking about the town of Ulster, please make sure you vote on Nov.6th for Nick Woerner for Supervisor, Ed Alieo for Town Justice, as well as the rest of the Dem ticket. ROW A.
102 comments:
Lady Esther Gin is a Knockout.
It isn't "The citizens FOR change in UC" because it's the GOP. Grand OLD party. "This is the way it is,because it's always been like this" is a common refrain of regressives. "To bring back the contentment that used to be" is another one I've seen that shows how backward these "folks" are. The inability to look toward the future is evident. Neanderthalian traits.
Someone had to do this. It is the elephant in the room that everyone seems to be ignoring. How does a 21 year old kid raise 50,000? I remember Nicky from the Kingston committee and that is all I will say.
Joel Brink is the only honest Candidate of the Three. It is too bad that Wise and Kitchen are telling people not to vote for him. They have even gone so far as to take his palm cards out of the bag of crap that the Republicans are handing out. The Republicans are going to see once again that Nick Woerner is the real deal. Don Wise had nothing to say at last night’s public hearing on the Budget. Why you ask? Because he has no clue about what is going on in the Town. It's not about the Three R's as he puts it. It's about Responsibility, Reasonability and Results. Three things that Supervisor Woerner has shown amongst many others. Four more years of Supervisor Woerner and our Town is a winner. What the loud mouth Wise family has not learned is that you don’t win elections by recruiting “Knuckle Draggers” like Vince Guido. He is a disgrace to the Guido family name. His is nothing like his father. My prediction 750 vote victory for Nickie.
Joe from the Tree Streets
6:49, you are a racist. Referring to your neighbors as sub-humans is racist. Label a racist as a racist and your comments are racist.
Al Sharpton
Congratulations to Supervisor Woerner for once again stepping up to the plate and presenting to the town a budget that is acceptable to all of the taxpayers. I was pleasently surprised that even Don Wise who had an opportunity to speak his mind on the budget at last nights meeting seemed pleased with it because he certainly didn't challenge the Town of Ulster Board or Mr. Woerner during public comment. I believe he is finally conseeding to the idea that he is in over his head.
J.E. Smith
Hi Jeremy - I think you might have the wrong angle. The group you are refering to is a democratic group that is looking into allegations that ‘special interest’ monies are bankrolling Nick Woerner's campaign for supervisor.
I think the group you are talking about are NOT GOP members, but in fact Democrats who are looking into why the GOP has alleged that “Friends of Nick Woerner” have raised over $56,000, 90% of which has come from out of town and special interests.
I think the group's intent is altruistic. They say that they are devoted to Campaign Finance Reform. My understanding is they want to get to the bottom of whether these are harmful rumors propogated by the GOP, or if the allegations are truth in fact.
If I do not have an accurate understanding of the purpose of this group them I am sure someone on this blog will correct me.
Just saw the letter. It is sent by ulster democrats to ulster democrats, so it definitely merits further discussion. Understanding that Woerner is a friend, perhaps a respectful way to handle would be to simply post the letter (without spinning the context) so people can read & determine its meaning for themselves?
Doing it this way affords Nick the opportunity to come on, address the allegations and clear up any misperceptions about what might be happening. Perhaps he will write a response and that can be posted here too
"regressives/Neanderthals" If you are going to continually use these terms you might as well sign your name.
We finally have a town board that realizes that there is more to this town than the Mall- people actually live here and raise families. We had the best year ever for the kids at camp and the recreation department. Don Wise keeps talking about "economic development"- what does that mean?-It is a just a general statement that every politician in every town throws around to make people believe he has the answers for higher paying jobs. I really do not think he has a specific plan and I do not think he is qualified to run this town. He was on the zoning board for a while and had a terrible attendance record.--I guess he liked the title but did not care about the job.
I am voting for Nick Woerner because he is actually making this town a better place to live for my family.
Regressive and neanderthalian are terms that fit those who seek to remain in the past. It would be "racist" if they were in fact neanderthals. Since this issue was a democratic one,my assumption that they were regressives like the "this is the way it is because it's always been this way" crowd was incorrect. I don't have access to the advertisement. I don't consider my neighbors to be "sub-human" just because they lack intelligence and foresight. I do consider them to be self-defeating in opposing the future they have no control over to prevent. If Mr. Woerner supports Bradley, then he is a regressive. You won't find any support for regressive's from me. I think the jury is in though on the neanderthalian traits of people who cannot see a rock in the middle of the road before hitting it. Look up the recent MRI study from Prof. Amodio at NYU. It's only the latest of many that show that some segment of our population is lacking in brain function that causes this regressive behavior. My apologies to the group in question.
ah, that poster's got DILLLUUUUsions of grandeur. And he know's he's dillusional, and will never post his name. Afraid to be tarred and feathered by the 'reeeegressives'.
Honest Abe pegged them for being republicans,again, my apologies to this group for mistakenly linking them to the neanderthalian regressive "folks" that fear the future.
To: 1:29
The group you speak of are funded by Jimmy Quigley the Republican Party treasurer. He is part of this "citizens for change". What I don't understand is the Supervisor Woerner has disclosed every dollar he has raised and spent. But yet the Citizens for change have not. They are required to do so under election law. They are spending money and republican money is being funneled into their bogus cause. Tell Jim Quigley that the Town Supervisor's office is not for sale. Tell Vince Guido he can’t bully Nickie around like he did to Lisa Grouposso. Re-Elect Supervisor Woerner.
Joe from the Tree Streets
"dillusional" is not a word. Delusional is what you're trying to say,and no, I'm not. I'm very easy to find. Jeremy has met me. As for grandeur,it's relative,but certainly way above yours. Ask Schumer,Clinton,Spitzer,Cahill,Hinchey,Sennett, and even Bradley if you need confirmation as to who paints the political landscape in which you live. Your lack of education makes you inferior and feeds your inferiority complex. "Tarring and feathering" me would be virtually impossible by the regressives. They fear me so much that they wouldn't even make it up my driveway. To them I'm the anti-christ. In NYC, I'm just a normal guy. Here in UC I might as well be your god. It's pretty sad that there's such a low educational and intellectual level amongst the populace here,but it's changing rapidly. With my input,you'll at least have a functioning DA's office,no matter who wins. All three candidates have now accepted my agenda. They had no choice. Every ADA in that office now knows who I am. I sat on the UC grand jury this summer,at my own request, to see the dysfunction that needed repair. Prior to my investigation, this DA's election would have been just a popularity contest and jail issue. Pretty boring if you ask me. Now,some real change will occur as it should. I think Jon will do a good job. Less so of the others. My ideas stand on their own,so giving my name would only feed your imagination and fear. Deification only leads to villification. I have no use for either. So I'll sit in my mansion and stay anonymous so you won't prejudge my agenda and make futile attempts to dis-credit me. I'm looking out for all of you.
Nasty is Nick Woerner at a town board meeting when he ignores pleas for help from the citizens. The neighbors of his relatives housing project were lied to by council people and left to fight for themselves instead of the town board doing its job to protect the taxpayers. Never again do I vote for Woerner or anyone he supports. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
11:28, you CRACK me up. You're posts are always so funny. It's nice to have some humor in the midst of such seriousness. The whole premis of your joke, regressives vs progressives. MRIs. Mass Extinction. Did you write for the Seinfeld show? Or possibly the new Caveman show, which is probably why it SUCKS!
Mr. Blaber,
I am happy to see you have picked up on the "mantra" of Campaign FInance Reporting and adherence to the Election Laws. Prior to your conception as a Blogger Mr. Woerner ran a campaign in 2005 where there was a TOTAL lack of following the Election Law in relation to the filing of Campaign Finance Reports. Mr. Woerner's Committee filed I believe in late Feburary or March of 2006 after missing 4 filing deadlines. Despite repeated requests from the Democratic Election Commissioner, The Democratic Victory Committee failed to file ANY Campaign Finace Reports until I sued them and Mr. Woerner in New York State Supreme Court in October of 2006. But of course you knew that.
I for one would encourge The Citizens for Change to follow all the required rules and regulations for disclosure of Campaign Finances.
For the record (not that you care about the TRUTH)
I am not a member of the Citizens for Change. Yes I have visted the Headquarters of the group a couple of times as have many other Voters of the Town of Ulster interested in Real Change in The Town of Ulster.
I have hired Joe Toscano as a media consultant for the Republican Committee. Mr. Toscano's skills were responsible for assisting in the election of Mr. Woerner in 2005, so you go with someone who has proven himself. I would have hired your CAT if I had known it was available. Mr. Woerner tried to hire Mr. Toscano after I hired him.
So please check the FACTS.
James E. Quigley 3rd
8:42 AM
Sorry,no sit-coms here,only serious policy in government. Mass extinction? Where'd that come from? To much fiction on TV. I only watch/write for CNN.
There are plenty of intelligent people in Ulster County, and if it weren't for media selection and oppression by those in power I'm sure folks would be hearing a lot more INTEGRAL intellectual things. Isn't it illegal to post oneself to a grand jury? It certainly sounds as if it SHOULD be? Isn't it the hight of corruption to state that all of the potential DAs are attuned to one person's agenda because "they had no choice?" Maybe when we shake up this box of Crackerjacks all we will get in the end - no matter what - is just another useless (and probably toxic...) TOY. We all DO have to serve someone, but it seems to me that the welfare of our children should come first and the GOD OF MAMMON should be way out there in left field somewhere. By the way, one's degree of education has as much to do with one's ability to get an advanced education as anything else, so I hope someone out there plans on doing something about our screwed up two-tier educational system.
By the way...
If someone out there is "looking out" for me...
I would like to see an equitable health care system, an equitable educational system, and an equitable justice system (just for starters) for everyone.
I would like to see integrity.
I would like to WITNESS integrity.
And I'd like to see Bush Jr. and Cheney legally removed from office.
Can you handle all of THAT?
Thanks.
Mr. Quigley,
God Bless you for all you do
As for posting myself,all it takes is asking. You're allowed to serve every three years I think. I was surprised at that little aspect too. Anyway,no reasonable person would see that plea bargaining,alternative sentencing for non-violent offenders,and aherence to the law requiring the stenographer to read back testimony upon request are things that need to be introduced. The system is woefully out of compliance in that respect due to the use of an ancient stenography system that renders the indictments suspect. Further, the instruction to refresh the memories of the other jurors with your notes is blatantly prejudicial. Not to mention that the ada's have access to those notes to tailor their presentations. Equitable justice's best chance is with Sennett. Equitable healthcare is something I've worked with Spitzer on while he was AG,by busting crooked medical billing services that fraudulently double billed for services. Universal care would be best. Schip is a step in the right direction,we're trying. Bush and Cheney are likely to leave office before any real charges are formed,but pardons will be fiercely opposed. War crimes charges are a distinct possibility,especially if Taylor spills the beans on his involvement in funding 911. The theocrats are under pressure to form a third party on the lunatic fringe where they belong. Supporting republican's efforts to nominate Rudy is working well on that front. All of these national issues have been work of mine that was interrupted by this treason of local democrats to throw this election. This race was a "no brainer" that Sennett was the one. Bradley is the problem,supported by the largest group of theocrats,the catholics. After this election next week,I'll be back at my day job,being railed against for being the socialist,terrorist, anti-christ for defending our secular democracy against the looneys. Say bye-bye to Domenici. The first one to be forced out by an MRI. I won't be here though anymore to educate you Kingstonians,even though you think it's science fiction. I'm sure if you read me these past few weeks that you'll recognize my words coming from the national democrats and media. I hope you'll all speak out loudly and with conviction in every venue to push our society forward. Words work.
To 5:07 --- now you sound GOOD --- human --- admirable --- except perhaps in the part about supporting Rudy (???) I'm not sure I get that. Anyhow, peace and prosperity. I sure hope words do make a difference, because sometimes words are all that we have.
God, who is this guy. A coward for SURE!. We UC residents will be lost After you leave? Pooooleeeze.
You are a focking idiot, is what you are. Look at your sentence:
... All of these national issues have been work of mine that was interrupted by this treason of local democrats to throw this election ... It reminds me of that japanese game mis-phrase, "All your base is mine".
This guy thinks he is Howard Dean or the big man himself, Soros. Show yourself to be something OTHER than a copy and paste PLAGIARIST, and maybe, just maybe you will earn some credibility. Anonymous Asshole.
Supporting Rudy is Hillary's ticket to the WH and Dobson's doom. After primaries,he's toast. We can't let the theocrats keep the republican party. It's time we let the libertarians have it back. It's been stolen property for thirty years.
Mr. Quigley is a liar!
I meet Mr. Quigley for the first time when he was at the first flop of a grand opening on October 21 for Citizens for Change. He was sitting in the headquarters working away on his computer. He is not only involved but I am sure he is the money tree for the failed science project - Citizens for Change. We all know you sued Supervisor Woerner and the case was dismissed by a very competent Supreme Court Judge. The reason for the lateness in the Supervisor’s filings is because your new friend, Mr. Guido was in possession of the documents until he was served with a demand notice to return Mr. Woerner’s property. Don’t distort the facts Mr. Quigley. We know you just gave $ 5000.00 to the Republican’s Campaign. Why is it that you gave so much? Are you going to develop a project? Do you need a favor from the Town? Or are you just trying to by the Supervisor’s office for your and Don Wise’s benefit? Are you who the Citizens for Change should be looking out for? You talk about integrity, two years ago you and your cohorts fought to kick Barbara Wise out. Now you are her and her son’s best friend. How could you treat the stepson (Supervisor Woerner) of one of your wife’s closest friends this way? I know it’s hard for people to admit they are wrong, but when is the last time you had a conversation with Nick Woerner? Answer --- Never. When Nick gets re-elect next week maybe you should try it. You will be impressed how much smarter he is than most of the people our age. Knock off the nonsense.
Bob Nyulassy
If it wasn't for Vince Guido in 2005 Nick Woerner would have lost.
He was the driving force behind Nicks victory. Nick repaid him by reneging on promises of appointments and also financial dealings. He topped it off by firing Vince's wife after 2 months. She had forfeited a sure win as tax collector as a favor to his conservative friends to promote one of their candidates. So this comes as no surprise. It look likes Nick is reaping what he sowed.
Quigley Hired Tuscano????? Well according to the NYS Board of Elections, Mr. Quigley, he is not being paid by any 6 or so committee’s that you are the Treasurer of!!!! Mr. Quigley don’t you think you are going to have a hard time explaining to the NYS BOE that your are retaining services for candidates and not disclosing the cost. Maybe you thought of that already?
Is that why you gave Holly Carnright your hopeful for DA, $ 5400 (07-19-07) plus the
$ 10,000 (09-03-07) you gave the UC Republican Committee that they then gave
$ 15,000 (09-07-07) to Carnright???
Talk about lies, deception and the purchasing of power.
Good thing we have a very smart Attorney General!!!
Citizen Against Corrupt Citizens
Our AG is shit, asshole.
Oh No Cuomo
These brainless posters are so pathetic about getting pissed off at people who can think. It really underscores how obsolete they are when they can only resort to name calling and accusations of plagiarism.8:05-care to back that up with some facts? Who exactly is being plagiarized? Copy and paste from where?
To 8:09 PM. Thanks for the clarification on your Rudy G. support. But do you really think another term of Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton (too much like a monarchy) is the answer? What do you think about John Edwards?
By the way, I'm a staunch Democrat, but there does seem to be something radically amiss with some of the folks associated with the local Democratic Party...
'Tis true.
I like Edwards,if he wins the nomination,I'll back him 100% and Hill will too. The local "conservative" democrats are outgunned in the intelligence department and have to let go now. They will be a liability in next year's election. Without the godheads in control of the red party,the race will be about who is smarter. We should make sure that we are.
if woerners spokesman, had any sense at all which obviously is in doubt, he would shut up about buying the supervisors office for developers. everyone knows woerners biggest contributors are. one developer or someone connected to development, after another. they sure aint home owners donating $1000 at a time.
9:51 says that Vince Guido supported Nick Woerner in 2005 for political appointments and financial dealings?- That does not sound good to me- Basically whatever candidate he supports is going to owe him something? I may be naive but I thought you supported a candidate because he was the best man/woman for the job not for political appointments. Maybe that is why he was at war with Lisa Groppuso 2 months after he helped her get elected-he was not getting his payback.
Whomever is making cowardly anonymous comments about Mr. Quigley is completely wrong. I can personally vouch for his personal integrity. His generousity and caring for community organizations has been clearly demostrated by his deeds. Many organizations would not be here without his tireless and significant support. He cares and he gets involved.
Friends & Neighbors,
For both those of you defending and criticizing me in this forum I thank you. I am reluctant to add my comments here as it would only give this form of pointless rhetoric credibility, of which it has none. It is the personal feelings, justified or unfounded of most of those posting. As for the promoter of this blog, like all blogs, his pieces need not be supported by fact. I make this post in an attempt, (although difficult), to defend our political process.
As most of you familiar with my work you know it as encouragement for each and every one of you to participate in the electoral process. I was brought up to believe, (and still do), that it is not only our right but duty to do so. When you do, you can further claim the right to condone or condemn the actions of those we elect to represent us.
In the case of our current supervisor, I was convinced at the time of his 05’ campaign our town was in need of change and had hopes that he was that change. I spent a couple of hundred hours in his support and defense and worked many hours preparing and distributing his campaign material. I sought no monetary or influential favor, it was in fact a method of serving my friends and neighbors of the town.
It was not long however that this supervisor dashed my hopes and trampled any expectation he was the man he proposed to be, On January 1st immediately after his taking oath to serve he began his 2 year attempt at corrupting the interests of unity. His callous treatment of Councilmen Joel Brink and Craig Artist in not informing them of 6 resolutions he brought to the table and expecting they make an informed vote is a testament to the direction he would take our town. I was relieved that these councilmen had the integrity to abstain rather than curry his favor and vote in agreement with the majority, then the supervisors’ campaign team.
It became obvious to me as well as many of his supporters that his first pledge of unity had already fallen on the trash heap. As I utilized my resources, the editorial pages of our local news papers, I became his strongest critic, and had even made public apology to my fellow citizens for mi blind support of his campaign.
Our supervisor had treated with disregard my most valuable possession, my vote, and I continued to be his critic for what is in ‘my opinion’ his selling out of our town to the ‘special interests’.
With the hope of righting a wrong, I sought appointment to the Town’s newly formed Economic Development Committee or EDC, this is a purely voluntary committee who mission is to enhance the opportunity for better employment for our residents and our youth and an invitation to new business to move to our town. I compromised my public criticism with the hope of making a more constructive effort for our neighbors, thinking always by my acceptance to the committee our supervisor was keeping his friends close and his ‘enemies closer’.
After almost a full year our committee is not responsible for adding either 1 (one) job or new business to the ranks of our town. It is my ‘opinion’ this committee is just further lip service to quell the disappointment of many of our fellow residents.
I don’t know if his opponent will be a better or worse supervisor than what we have now, I do know that he will be different, and just different is a step in the right direction.
I also know however if Mr. Woerner had any respect for my vote he would have done something, anything not to lose it, he has not.
Joe Toscano
To 8:09 --- I know it is unlikely that J. Edwards will get the nomination --- but one can hope. And I certainly agree with the fact that we need Dobson and the rest of the theocrats out of there!
In fact I wish someone would address the violations of church and state that have gone on, as these are HUGE threats to our Democracy and crimes against the American citizenship.
I can get carried away with all of that though, and I guess this blog is more for local issues, so I'll try to contain myself a bit :)
Is there a better place to discuss national issues? It seems to me like our local politicians SHOULD be addressing national issues, since the issues are so extreme and pertinent to our collective futures / our children's futures - but that just isn't happening.
Any ideas on that front? I'm really fairly new to all of this political territory. But I've done a lot of research (for my own purposes; I am a writer) covering the Nixon/Agnew to the present.
iyiyiyiyiyiyi!
I gotta’ laugh, this guy blabber fancies himself a political pundit, I seem to recall his recent failure to win a seat on the Kingston City School Board. How can a boy of his age and experience hope to have intelligent input without first having been a parent of a school age child. So I guess the blogisphere is where failed politicians end their careers and begin to fill the internet with unfounded rhetoric in the hope of giving their puny lives and overblown egos some validity.
Blabber, You have met me only once, while you were campaigning for the School Board, and I believe I tried to be polite at that time in my attempt to dissuade you from what I feel a useless attempt to follow in the footsteps of your illustrious leader, guess who?
But just to prove you can’t buy experience you malign my character without any first hand information. It is no way to gain credibility, I can only hope that the lessons life teaches us about one’s name and character will one day find a place in your life as well.
Until then, I would appreciate if you at least have the courage to admit how very little you know me and admit publicly exactly whose opinion of me you are broadcasting, be aware I do not expect a response.
Meanwhile remember I am not an elected official, once elected they are fair game, if they can’t stand the heat, maybe politics isn’t exactly their calling, I on the other hand have never criticized an individual outside of the public arena and proudly put my name on anything I write.
Joe Toscano
11:33- The DNC blog is an excellent place to go. Not only is it open and free of censorship, (ignore the trolls) but it will provide nearly instant posting for more real time discussion. In addition,please use the CNN political ticker to promote ideas beyond the scope of the choir. It is the best outlet to 1.3 million people worldwide with instant posting as well. I hope the IRS will enforce it's regulations in the next administration. The lack there-of has been very destructive to our nation. Please continue with me to change this deplorable theocratic intrusion to our politics. Thanks, ER
ER, thank you for the heads up. I put the CNN Political Ticker and the Democratic National Committee blogs in with my favorites, and I'll be checking them out more tomorrow.
Honestly, I'm real depressed tonight, and I don't know how anyone stays on top of all of this without being really depressed.
Anyhoot, tomorrow is a new day and I am truly grateful for your input. Keep in mind though that ignorance is not the same as low intelligence and that there is no shame in not knowing what one has never been taught.
Education and awareness are key factors in all of this --- and I guess emotional pain is inevitable when one gets a taste of the real (dirty) deal.
Locally, despite some handycaps, I am doing what I can to be a part of the solution. Ideas are always welcome. Change is definitely called for.
After reading these comments I can see why people don't get involved with local politics.
I don't want to pick a "side",I just want to be able to drive through MY town, OUR town and not have to sit in traffic for 30 minutes getting off the ramp from 209 on any given Saturday.
I don't want to look at ANOTHER big box business going up blocking my once beautiful view of the mountains, and I DON'T want another acre of wetlands being destroyed by all this run off from the asphalt jungle we seem to keep putting down all around us. Can any of you honestly say you actually LIKE what the Town of Ulster has become? Tons of fast food joints, ,numerous chain coffee shops, multiple sporting goods stores, malls...YIKES!
The job opportunities around here are god awful (Unless you want to wait tables or fold pants in retail clothing store) and since I'm not into the local politics or related to someone to give me an "in", I must drive over an hour to work.
The way I look at it if the person in whatever position they hold does not do what they say, or does not hold the people who live here in their best interest,they should be voted out. That means Nick Woerner, Don Wise or Joe Schmoe. End of story. It's a shame that it all boils down to cash and paying back favors in the ol' boys club.
I am a citizen and I say it's time for a change...
You ever drive through Amsterdam or Utica 10 years ago? They were pretty easy to get through because NO ONE LIVED THERE! Now through economic development, these cities are rebounding, and yes it takes alittle more time to drive through. I'd rather sit in traffic, than live in a ghost town.
Your right, I love sitting in traffic. It's way better than driving through and looking at trees and well thought out buildings that actually enhance the surroundings. I say we build an 8 lane highway right through town and add at the very least 6 more hotels where you have to drive through a pharmacy and a fast food place to get to it.SUPER.Economic development? Developing disaster.
You upstate people have no idea what traffic is. You'd never make it in the city. I bet you couldn't even park in Manhattan.
With smart development we can have growth and control traffic and even assure our resiedents a better quality of life, as long as we insist the deveopers conform to our demands rather than give in to their profit margins, (so they can afford to make huge campaign contrbutions to the decision makers on the town board) Remember Nick has a set of flashing lights in his grill so no matter how much he over builds he wont be stopped next to you in traffic.
Sorry boys but you made it personal,
joe Toscano
I think it's about fifty years too late for any architectural conformity. The attempts by communities that have tried have always had downsides. I find Kingston to be beautifully traffic free. But I've had real experience with real traffic in actual cities. Mr. Toscano,you should lay off Jeremy for having the balls to try politics at his age. It is by trying and failing that most people learn. Surely his experiences are going to help him in the future and your condescending attitude is beneath an adult of school age children. I'm sure he's got many more bumps to go and you shouldn't put a kid down for trying. Be an adult and have patience for our youth so that more like him can make the mistakes and learn how to correct them. Nick will make mistakes,he's a kid who's trying. You're probably twice his age so act like it and stick to constructive criticism. Find a little humor in their inexperience and reward them for their youth. You might find valuable allies in the future. You're certainly lending Jeremy some credibility in posting here,and I appreciate your recognition of the younger generation. Have patience,they need to have role models.
The whole point is we are not manhattan, we live here because we choose a more serene life for ourselves and our families, if Woerner gets elected say goodbye to peace and tranquility, say hellow to a quick check and a long drive. (didn't Nicky get a quick check from quick check) Hmmmmm do you see the connection yet?
I just heard the Hinchey endorsement, talk about lies, if I remember correctly, it was at one of our EDC meetings, Nicky was more surpirsed than any of us that the IDA was actually making progress with Mr Ginsberg in securing a lease for "some sort of solar energy project" It's really funny that Nick will take credit for this when he rarely attends any committee meetings at the county level, I guess one lies and the other swears to it! Please have the decency not to ask your endorsers to lie to make you look better, it just dosen't work. The citizens of our town are a lot smarter than you give them credit for, that's why you are so upset that they have a realistic view of where all the money is coming from.
First of all I lived and worked in the NYC for more than 25 years and commuted a short 7 miles to my office for most of that time. I moved here to get out of that traffic jam and don't like the thought of it in 'My Town'.It would have been my pleasure to not only support but defend Mr. Blaber had his mistakes not been at mine and other's expense.Had he not made such uninformed callous remarks about people he does not know based on hearsay, He would have done his readers a service, His self proclaimed expertice places the burden of acccuracy squarly upon his shoulders, A course in journalism might serve him in this area. As for Nick's youth and inexperience, need I say more, how can you justify his getting experience at the expense of the hard working residents of our town, is he playing the game of 'Life' or 'Monopoly' with the lives of 12,000 real, live people just trying to make ends meet? You have just stated the most important reason not to re-elect him. This is not a joke, we aren't in the playground sandbox, the police department is not his favorite toy. How dare you insult the residents of the Town of lster and ask that we forgive his 'mistakes', with so many peoples welfare at stake, You must be 'MAD'!
Nick had the opportunity to make this town and our residents something special, HE SOLD US OUT for 30 pieces of silver to promote the agenda of greedy self serving corporations and the likes of Steve Aaron. How dare you justify his actions as the mistakes of youth.
Doesn't anyone on this blog have the courage or even the pride to back up their positions with their names, What credibility?
Mr. Toscano-great point. We don't live in Manhatten-we live in Upstate NY.
I went to school in the city and have worked there and can park rather well thank you.
But I suppose a jab at us "upstate" people is to prove some sort of point. Funny, you must be an "upstate" person yourself. I highly doubt you'd have such an opinion in all of this if you lived in Manhatten.
I grew up in the city and had the sense not to move into another little city,expecting it to stay like a little town. If you wanted to escape the city,why would you move to a center of commerce? I mean it's kind of short-sighted to expect that growth would not turn the only commercial shopping area into a magnet for cars. You cannot have it both ways. I moved to a rural area with space to expand so that my life would not be city-like. You could have done the same. Seven miles to commute in the city means you must have lived in Washington Heights. Or worked there. Unless you consider the boros the city. Quit yer bitchin' about growth lest we real consumers that support your shopping centers stop and drop your tax base back into the sewer. We can shop somewhere else you know. I heard your residents complaining about no parking around Kingston and it was laughable. The talk of traffic like it's bad in Kingston is also laughable. Go buy few dozen acres out west and stop holding back the growth that Kingston needs. A ten minute commute takes less time than getting accross town on a bus. The jab is at you luddites,not upstaters. I have houses in both the city and upstate. I prefer to raise my kids here.
With the failure of Nick Woerner to get a fair share of Sales taxes from the COunty, AS PROMISED last supervisors election, It might be profitable to have the added traffic through our town, But since the cost of a deteriorating infrastructure and further incopmitent development, what paulty revenue we do get cant equal the cost of the ADDED POLICE force alone, LOOK AT BUDGET OVERRUNS< $1.1 million over his 2 years as supervisor, Try to justify that to our resident.YOU Just don't get it, With Smart development we don't have to become another NYC, Why cant we learn by their mistakes, why must we repeat their failure. That is JUST PLAIN INSABE! And if you knew The city as well as you claim to know about our shopping centers you would know that the City of NY has been included all 5 boro's since the mid 60's If you are reffering to Manhattan, be specific. DO YOU HAVE A NAME Or must you hide behind Anonymous Said, Once again there is that credibility issue
OH by the way for your data base, the Town of Ulster has not yet merged with the City of Kingston, If Nick gets elected will we be able to make that claim 1 year from now.
I think you need an education in geographics. MR Anonymous, but if you can't place your name with your comments you might not know that either.
"I grew up in the city and had the sense not to move into another little city,expecting it to stay like a little town."
-Does this make any sense?
"If you wanted to escape the city,why would you move to a center of commerce?"
I didn't-I live on the outskirts of town and it wasn't like this when I moved here...
"I moved to a rural area with space to expand so that my life would not be city-like. "
-Uhm..having trouble with this, not quite what you stated in your first sentence, but ok...
"You could have done the same. Seven miles to commute in the city means you must have lived in Washington Heights. Or worked there."
-Seven miles? uhm, again not sure where that number came from after re-reading the statement I wrote...
"Quit yer bitchin' about growth lest we real consumers that support your shopping centers stop and drop your tax base back into the sewer. We can shop somewhere else you know."
-Good go shop somewhere else, and take your Walmart and all of the rest of the crappy retail stores with you. I'd rather pay higher taxes and shop local, and support my neighbors businesses, because that's what it's all about COMMUNITY isn't it?
"I heard your residents complaining about no parking around Kingston and it was laughable. The talk of traffic like it's bad in Kingston is also laughable."
-When did I say anything about Kingston? I thought I lived in the Town of ULSTER.
"Go buy few dozen acres out west and stop holding back the growth that Kingston needs. A ten minute commute takes less time than getting accross town on a bus."
-Again, Town of ULSTER, and we NEED another big box business like we NEED a hole in our heads.
"The jab is at you luddites,not upstaters. I have houses in both the city and upstate. I prefer to raise my kids here."
-Wow, lucky you.
Enough is enough, lets cut the crap and get to the facts.
Never in the history of Town of Ulster Politics has a re-election campaign fund been so full of money from outside, corporate and special interests. Never in the history of the Town of Ulster have Residents felt so closed out of local issues. Never in our history has the Town of Ulster been so manipulated by special interests, gaining access and favor over the rights and interests of our residents.
Is the money given to the ‘Friends of Nick Campaign’ payment for services rendered or a down payment on promises soon to be delivered?
Either way it is the Residents of the Town of Ulster who are the only losers! Thanks Nick, But Please don’t help us any more, we can’t afford it!
We gave Nick our vote to protect our interests’, I guess without money behind it, it isn’t all that valuable to him.
We still have one comfort though, these special interests cannot vote. It is our one protection from 2 more years of a Red Tad Sale at 1 TOWN HALL.
Town of Ulster Residents can afford any more of Nick’s Promises, Real or Broken.
By the way I still havn't seen anyone use their name in these attempts to defend Nick! What might that mean???????
I don't like to say much but reading these blogs about Mr. Woerner seems to be pissing me off more and more. First of all Mr. Woerner has done a fine good for this Town and a lot of people know that. Except for those couple who don't. Wasn't it in fact you Mr. Toscano who I saw kissing MR. Woerner's ass many times this summer at the Town of Ulster Little League Fields? Yes I believe it was. Or was it only because you needed something at the time. As did Mr. Guido. He was just looking to gain some kind of power in Town when Mr. Woerner won two years ago. "Citizens for Change in Ulster" what a joke. Do you enjoy putting crap in the paper about Mr. Woerner.....what are you little boys in mens bodies. Grow up. If in fact your man Mr. Wise does win....I hope the Town crumbles down and you two are at the bottom with him.
There goes that Mr anonynous again so proud of his name and his defense of His leader. And the personal attacks just kkep on coming, I know I have never asked For anything from Mr Woerner, Although he has asked me for a few favors, In an effort to clean up his image, I complied, I can't help it if he screwed it up again. I sleep better for it, I think you have me confused with Steve Aaron, David Auringer, the boys up at Callanans or Bill Nylassy. Nick did give my foster son some tickets to a Renegades game, of which I offered payment by the way, you see I knew that any gift from Nick Has strings attached. And unlike you and your insinuations, If attempting to maintain a degree of decorum in public before the children of our town, unlike his attorney Zweven, if that is what you consider ass kissing, then trusting your judgement about anyones character is even a further stretch. Try taking off the sunglasses it's OK to be seen in Public, and wouldn't it be nice if you had the courage of your covictions and actually used your name. That's the trouble with lying, you don't want nayone to know you are lying, mom always told me lies have short legs, (Are you going to attack my Mom now, be very carefull, she's better at this than am) you can hide behind anonymous for just so long, admit who you are you'll feel better for it in the long run. It's like any addiction, first you have to admit what you are before you can get help. But you wont because you know how hard it would be to be called a liar and a fraud publically.
When you have the stomach to stand up for your comments, come talk to me. You might learn something. Until then let the Hits just keep on comming.
By the way Mr. Woerner is doing a fine job for his friends,(cha-ching, cha-ching) As far as the town goes I'm not so sure.
it amazing to me that wise will not debate nick woerner maybe tusano & guido should do it for him both of them couldn't hold my godsons jock. everyone that knows guido knows what he is all about me,me,me.... and tusano just kisses guidos ass. i'm not afraid to give you my name and you know were i live larry woerner
"Mr Anonymous said "If in fact your man Mr. Wise does win....I hope the Town crumbles down and you two are at the bottom with him.
I really believe you would wish that for our town and our residents, what a horrible thing to say about people you don't even know. How do you live with yourself. NAME PLEASE???????
mr.anonymous is right on if anyone allows guido & tusano to have anything to do with our town
Woerner's regime is all smoke and mirrors. He holds the line on taxes by depleting the reserves and has already spent the budget for the police department by November 1st. So, we're in the red for $600,000 for November and December just for the police department, and that's not taking into consideration the $1,000,000 in comp time owed to the employees. Whomever wins this Tuesday is going to have to seriously increase taxes next year to close the budget gap. If Wise wins, he'll get the blame and will only serve one term. Wise should have dissected that budget with a fine-toothed comb and grilled the town board. Instead he said nothing which makes me wonder what kind of leader he'd be. I don't think either Woerner or Wise is up to the job, but I think Wise deserves a chance. We've already seen what Woerner does, and it's not good.
Hey Larry the thought of holding your godsons jock is just too appauling to me, but I can see you are doing such a fine job, after all I sure it is a very big jock when you come right down to it. And while you ratchet up the rhetoric and try your best to slander my character, remeber you don't know me either. The point remains the same, Woerner has sold out the residents of the Town of Ulster, He has betrayed the trust of hard working men and women, fathers and mothers who don't have enough free time in their day to watch out for themselves. If he wsa the man I once thought he was, these would never be issues this election. The truth is if it was Don Wise or Donald Duck, should they disappoint and betray us the way 'Your godson' has I would do all I can to defeat them also. But even though it took a relative, I'm glad someone finally foud some courage and used their name. You're a better man for it.
So Larry let me get this right, If Wise wins and the town crumbles and our residents suffer, THIS MAKES YOU HAPPY? Now I know why your 'godson' dosn't care about the people of this town, he gets it from his 'godfather'. How do you hold your head up when you are out in public? Your attitudes only reinforce all the negative comments, (mine and others), about the job Nick is doing for our town. And that's twice you called me and a-kisser, if I was depraved enough to kiss nick's back side I'd have to get you out of the way first.
Woerners base of support is uncles,aunts,cousins,and parents.
Besides that obnoxious jerk with the white truck, where are the residents and tax payers?
I think Woerner is in for a surprise come 11/06.
Hey Jeremy - why won't you post my comment about Woerner depleting the reserves, overspending the police budget by $600,000, and racking up $1,000,000 in employees' comp time?
11:27, I am confident there are many of us who see the fasts as they are rather than as the Woerner forces portray them. It gets harder and harder to coverup and mis represent the facts, and I believe you may be right, It's the old game of mis-direction, In this case though Nick is no Houdini, He might be a little more like David COpperfield. He kept this years tax hike reasonable by subsidizing the budget with surplus balances and he is using this mone to buy our votes, if that isn't a slap in the face I don't know what is. Anyway, it took many years to amass a 2.4 million Dollar surplus, I believe there is less than $1 million left. But he wont have to answer for that for another 2 years or 4 if he has his way. Isn't that regress rather than progress, How can any town suffer this kind of representation and survive. Thank you for a clear representation of the facts.
I am a republican and I just cant vote for a candidate (Wise) whose number one priorty seems to be getting our zip code changed-- What is that all about????? I think there are more pressing issues in this town to be addressed. I am just not getting any real sense of leadership from Wise.
If your ideas don't stand on their own,your name surely doesn't help. I don't think I've defended Woerner,except to point out that he's a kid,and tocano is a bitter old fart that is living in the past. Get off your obsession with individuals and stick to ideas. I dumped six or seven grand in sales taxes there this year and it wasn't at Walmart or those crappy box stores.
So according to you,
You "dumped six or seven grand in sales taxes there this year and it wasn't at Walmart or those crappy box stores".
you must have spent close to $80 or $90 grand just in the Town of Ulster, I hardly think that is at all accurate. I don't know, it sounds a little strange to me.
You cant spin it your way but it just wont work, a kid has no right playing with the lives of thousands of people who could never spend 6 or 7 thousand in town in total let alone in sales tax. And if your idea of the future is:
You "think it's about fifty years too late for any architectural conformity. The attempts by communities that have tried have always had downsides."
The downsides could are created by letting developers pay their way for approval of projects that destroy the character of a town, then maybe we could learn learn a few things from the 'past' so we don;t repeat them.
You know if you bang your head against the wall time and time again and you expect it not to hurt, then maybe, just maybe you're INSANE"
We learn not to repeat the mistakes of the past so we can enjoy a better tomorrow.
Mr. Anonymous
Just a point of information, 3% of $7,000 is a paultry $210, that doesn't pay for the gas one of our Police cars uses in little more than a week, thanks for nothing
you know i think we need the team of guido & tuscano or tuscano & guido to run in 4 years just to see what they could do to change this town(they say for the better) dosn't everybody else think this would be the answer to all our problems???????? ha ha hahahahahahahahhahahhahhaha
I sent this to the press today.
Cahill Denounces Group
I STRONGLY denounce the use of an email I sent to 2 local newspapers by the people behind the Ulster Visions political newspaper that was distributed on Sunday November 4,2007 in the town of Ulster.
I did not give permission for this to be used and vehemently oppose the use of the tactics used by this group.
I stand by my comments on the length of term for the office of Supervisor. However, I will not sit idly by as my good name and reputation are carelessly damaged by a group of people who are not known to me for their own personal political gain.
Brian B. Cahill (D - Ulster)
Roughly 80 grand spent in your county,most of it in Kingston,$6200. Obviously I wouldn't have given you ingrates any business. You miserable toads just bitch and moan about how it used to be. By the way you whine,you probably don't make that in a year. You need to grow up and move away if you don't like change. You seem to forget how vinyl siding and glitzy chrome was once thought to be attractive. Those beautiful brick buildings in your downtown are treated like garbage. Maybe because garbage like you lives there? What about that horrid glass county building? Fine examples of someone's idea of what looks good. Leave it to chance and you'd have better outcome. Go green with restrictions instead. Passive energy structures are longer lasting and more profitable.
Oh and since you're so fond of name dropping, I'll tell those retailers of big-ticket items that Joe Toscano doesn't want me to spend money in "his" town. That ought to make you real popular. I think they'll put a bounty on your head.
7:24 said:
I'll tell those retailers of big-ticket items that Joe Toscano doesn't want me to spend money in "his" town."
What are you babbling about, And I see you still havn't learned not to tell lies, You guys just don't get it, you can't spin the bull the Woerner camp puts out, all you do is add to it, his campaign contibutor list is FACT, His spending of the SURPLUSS is FACT, His inability to bring in any psying jobs let alone better paying jobs is FACT, His blowing the top off the Police Depts 06 & 07 budget is FACT, Is lack of attendance at County level committee meetings is FACT, His lack of Accountability is Fact. Heck Our attorney bills have almost doubled over the previous administrations alone. This too is FaCT!
He was too busy playing golf on 9/11 to attend a memorial ceremony at The East Kingston VOLUNTEER Fire Station, GOLF, Yup GOLF, Oh but then he would be confronted with the East Kingston/Callanan Issue but these too are Facts. Is this what he campaigned on in 05' YUP I Know because I wrote a lot of the material that got him elected, A mistake I am forever in apology over. And as far as your continous personal attacks at my expense, if that is all you have, please don't stop, each time you get to show your true colors.
It's a shame, you need to find a better way to express your thoughts, Oh but that would mean you need to be honest. Do you think you can handle that.
I'm more honest than you'll ever be. You're through in politics because you can't stand on principle. You helped elect someone that you now say is corrupt. Anybody you stand for now will be a failure. You consistently attack without any idea who your swinging at. You a miserable failure and should just go away in shame. You're pathetic.
Anonymous Said:
"You helped elect someone that you now say is corrupt."
Fool me once.....
As I've said He may very well have had honorable intentions, It didn't take long though, the parasites that influence him will throw him under a bus for the sake of their own agendas, just as they hove the residents of our town And if they stood on principle they'd cripple themselves, You see who and what they are is common knoledge, if you left your small circle of friends and walked with the people of the Town you'd find out people can't be fooled any longer. So tell'm straight and cut the crap. I still have yet to see anyone dispute the facts, Oh that would only reinforce their validity, so here we go again, smoke and mirrors, take the focus off the culprits and place them on the critic. You havn't done that good a job, but keep on trying you'll get it some day.
The fact is that thanks to Nick and his flunky town board members, especially Craig Artist, the Town of Ulster is virtually broke. Yes friends broke. Fact is that Werner and his flunkies have depleted the reserve fund from 2.3 million to a measly $600 thousand. In addition they have allowed 1 million in accrued comp time by employees to be held on the books and they have allowed the police department to spend its 2007 budget by the end of Oct. They will over spend thir budget by more than $600 thousand. By January 1st 2008 the town will have a ZERO reserve fund balance and $1 million in comp time.
$1 million comp time plus the old $2.3 million reserve that we had adds up to $3.3 million in debt that he has accured. All this and the Town Barn Bond was also paid off so that the town doesn't have to make those payments.
Smoke and mirrors have come to an end. 2008 is time to pay the fiddler. I feel sorry for the next supervisor no matter WHO is elected. BUT I feel more sorry for the residents for incompetent leadership. Artist and J. Brink are both businessmen but they certainly have failed to exercise and good business discretion in the running of the town. Werner can be excused from this. No one should expect and inexperienced kid to be able to run a large business. The job was WAY over his head. Dave slept through most of the meetings and his head nodding seemed to signify a yes vote. Rocky would go along with anything so long as everyone supported his sports complex.
Craig Artist walked in, unzipped his elephant suit and what stepped out but an ASS
Hey 7:17 You sound just like you might have some monetary stake in this, I bet there are a few cancelled checks from the friends of Nick campaign just sitting on you desk and your disparaging of me is one way to protect your investment. Sure that's what it is, who else would have such a high and mighty, I'm better than you attitude toward our residents, try to convince us to let you and greedy self serving people like you have your way with our community, You know what is best for us. IS it what's best for us or what's best for you bottom line!
More of us than you think have your number. we've lived with your idea of progress, progress at our expens and your profit margin. $7,000 in sales tax in the town of Ulster alone, yeah right!
By the way 7:17 from such a lofty view do you even know what the people are wearing this year!
Hey 7:17 from such a lofty view as yours', do you even know what the people are wearing this year!
I said in the county,mostly in Kingston. You still think I support Woerner,you moron. I have no monetary stake at all. I don't care what people are wearing and I'm glad to see people like you getting thrown out. You can take Woerner with you. You couldn't have my number if I gave it to you. You're an idiot. You take money from idiots to post here with all their info and you don't even know who's reading it. Loose lips sink ships,and boy have you sunk some! Keep going until you figure it out. Do you think I care about your town? About you? You're nothing. You'll always be nothing. You did more damage to more morons than you'll ever know. Including yourself. I didn't even have to pay you. The election is tomorrow but the lives you destroyed are forever. Even if you knew me,there's nothing you can do to dis-credit me or stop the destruction of your livelihoods and regressive culture. You turned in everybody by running off your mouth. You should be proud of yourself.Lol. You're such a dumb-ass.
Woerner or Toscano/Quigley/Guido.
One side are liars the other side are corrupt and vice versa.
Fuck 'em both! Snakes one and all.
New blood ,new people, no ties. Recruit the newcomers who actually care about what they're buying into. No more good ole boys. Once they're connected,what good are they? Prejudicial treatment and favors ruin credibility and poison neighborhoods.
to 5:26, "Hey Big spender", This was just another election until the likes of Jeremy Blabber went personal and the godfather took it to a new level. All I can say is congratulations, you must think you are the only smart man in the whole county, after all didn't you say,
"Do you think I care about your town? About you? You're nothing. You'll always be nothing. You did more damage to more morons than you'll ever know."
Oh and by the way, if bringing peoples' attention to "Public Information" (just go to the Board of elections web site or really read the town budget) it's all right there, It's "public Information" because the people have a right to know how things are being done in their government.
I'm sure you would rather have it a secret, after all "we Morons could Never understand things like 'campaign finance or decipher the numbers on a budget.
If in your mind they were at all honest, why do you refer to it as and I quote:
"You turned in everybody by running off your mouth."
That says alot, and you said it, I thank you!
"Town of Ulster Supervisor's Race Gets Nasty"? The race isn't nasty.
It's Joe Toscano who is NASTY. How sad and lonely your world must be. You're doing more writing than Jack Nicholson did in the Shining. We all know how that ended. Seems to me you have nothing in your life but time. It's just a suggestion, but maybe you should find the courage to do something more constructive with your life -- Spend time with your family, take a shower, FIND A JOB!
When is the last time you had a paying job anyway? I'm not sure where you come from, but where I come from when a group of people gang up on one person it's called bullying. Just from reading your comments, it is obvious to me you are not well-bred. Nick Woerner on the other hand is a man of fine character. He is well-spoken, intelligent, always conducts himeself like a gentleman and has alot of class. I have never heard those adjectives used when others describe you. But I have heard them say you are just a loud-mouth nobody. So, Toscano, relax and try to cleanse yourself of all that anger and negativity you carry within yourself. If you can accomplish that, maybe someday, somewhere, somebody will say something nice about you too.
I will be fucking glad when this is over. What a hideous sight the Town of Ulster is. There are more signs then voters. You politicians should be embarrassed.
Unbelievable! Can't defend against the message, attack the messenger. I smell bacon. I see lots of out of towners putting Mr Toscono under siege. I don't agree with Joe, but GOD, get to the issues folks! This reminds me of a lynching, with alot of HOODS covering the faces of the COWARDS!
If whatshisname were so powerful, and so freaking smart, he should have no problem fending off any damage which he FEARS comming his way if he let his name out.
I have no fear of damage,I'm completely untouchable. I'm attacking this personal nastiness that the republicans are paying for. I've never disputed the facts(if they are facts) just the sleazy methods employed. When the messenger is an assasin,then of course he's attacked. 94 and still going,I bet that idiot Toscano is getting paid by the word. More money drained from the GOP.
Show us just how 'untouchable' you are, just do it. MEOW!
BTW, in other countries, 'untouchable' is a subclass of human.
Congratulations, Nick, I'll be eating humble pie for quite a while
Good Job.
Quigley, Guido, Toscanno, Wadnola, Wise. LOOK OUT! You All got your asses kicked yesterday! HAHAHA
Tuscano,
Eat shit you scumbag.
I hope that pie gives you heartburn!
So let's see on Nicks team we have
Woerner -W
Hendrick - L
Corrigan - L
McDonald - L
Thomas - L
Prop 1 - L
Prop 2 - L
Prop 3 - Y **Petramale Won
So I am not so sure who got their asses kicked.
Now you see, there's a guy who admits he lost, with dignity. Not like others who would say, they would hope Ulster crumbles.
Hey,you broke a hundred! Nice. What's wrong with Tuscaloosa? Humble? He must have taken this on draw. No win,no pay.
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